"Checks" and """Balances""" In oMage

momothefiddler · Post by **momothefiddler** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:04 pm

Is there anything other than an unspoken agreement in Mage the Ascension that keeps a mage with a day off from gaining significant long-term power? At the tables I've played at, we basically just ignore ritual magic except for plot devices, and I chafe at the restriction. I don't like unspoken agreements because I don't get to know what we're agreeing! All I know is that if I use the rules as I understand them to my full potential, I'm pretty certain I'll get nerfed to oblivion and back, and that if I never attempt anything, there's no point in me being there, and there's a mysterious invisible threshold in there somewhere that I really really don't want to cross.

Basically, if it's "here is the restriction and it's reasonable" then that means I can go right up to that and stop. If it's "nope, Mage is fucked", well, it's not anything I didn't already know.

On a related note, is there any way to talk frankly to a Mage ST about what is and isn't possible without raising their hackles and having to endure a barrage of spot-nerfs? Because that's the only reaction I've ever managed to get.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:14 pm

Nope, Mage is fucked. If you work in your Sanctum, you can safely cast any spell with non-vulgar effect as a ritual with a thousand rolls and not blow up. Or just cast any spell and not blow up, if the effects don't leave the house.

My biggest problem with oMage is that there aren't two people on the planet that are in the same setting. Even on the same table people will be playing different settings without realising it, until something clashes.

I had GMs arguing that Traditions aren't fighting the Technocracy. I had three different GMs arguing with me about the way Avatar Storm works. By the book Avatar Storm hits you once, when you are passing the Gauntlet. I had people argue that:
-Avatar Storm instagibs you
-Avatar Storm deals damage every second within Umbra
-Avatar Storm just doesn't allow you to enter Umbra period.

People also commonly overstate or understate the power of the Technocracy and the way its agents work. For example, all three of my GMs claimed that Technocrats never leave the Technocracy alive, and at the same time, that the Technocrats don't control the government. Despite the fact that Guide to the Technocracy contains two different flaws to represent rogue agents.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:34 pm

Someone had a quote about the Technocracy being the heroes because running water and freedom of religion is greater than flying carpets and dickwolves -- but I'll be a monkey's uncle if I can find it.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:55 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Someone had a quote about the Technocracy being the heroes because running water and freedom of religion is greater than flying carpets and dickwolves -- but I'll be a monkey's uncle if I can find it.

It was me.

Longes wrote:Technocracy is winning. Toilets and antibiotics > flying carpets and dickwolfves.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:38 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
Don Strudel wrote:Any criticisms of how the Technocracy tackles science?
Well, the authors of the books seem to think that manipulating fire until lightning is so tame that ordinary people can flick a lightswitch and have the lights come on just about every time is some sort of brutal repression. It's very weird.

The Technocracy overthrew the Celestial Fucking Chorus, giving people freedom of religion, clean drinking water, and electric light. And despite bringing in more freedom and longer, happier lives... they are the villains. For no adequately explained reason.

-Username17

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:23 pm

Longes wrote:Nope, Mage is fucked. If you work in your Sanctum, you can safely cast any spell with non-vulgar effect as a ritual with a thousand rolls and not blow up. Or just cast any spell and not blow up, if the effects don't leave the house.

My biggest problem with oMage is that there aren't two people on the planet that are in the same setting. Even on the same table people will be playing different settings without realising it, until something clashes.

I had GMs arguing that Traditions aren't fighting the Technocracy. I had three different GMs arguing with me about the way Avatar Storm works. By the book Avatar Storm hits you once, when you are passing the Gauntlet. I had people argue that:
-Avatar Storm instagibs you
-Avatar Storm deals damage every second within Umbra
-Avatar Storm just doesn't allow you to enter Umbra period.

People also commonly overstate or understate the power of the Technocracy and the way its agents work. For example, all three of my GMs claimed that Technocrats never leave the Technocracy alive, and at the same time, that the Technocrats don't control the government. Despite the fact that Guide to the Technocracy contains two different flaws to represent rogue agents.

I've run into this shit with D&D too. I've learned that when I'm a player and MC is spouting some weird shit with no basis to start by saying "I was not aware of this, it is not what the books say, is this a change you have made for your game?" Of course there will be people who say they didn't change anything, and then you have to put up with it or show them chapter and verse and be ready to pack up.

JigokuBosatsu · Post by **JigokuBosatsu** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:15 am

Kind of like "Free Parking"in Monopoly.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:22 am

No, I'm pretty sure Monopoly was printed with subtly different rules in every box, as part of the plan to ruin friendships and break families.

Or parody Capitalism, whatever.

momothefiddler · Post by **momothefiddler** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:45 am

Prak wrote:and be ready to pack up.

Buddy, if I had sufficient choices to do that, I doubt I'd be playing Mage.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:08 am

It was really more of a "because they'll probably kick you out after proving to them they're mind caulking" thing.

Schleiermacher · Post by **Schleiermacher** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:11 pm

momothefiddler wrote:
Prak wrote:and be ready to pack up.
Buddy, if I had sufficient choices to do that, I doubt I'd be playing Mage.

No gaming is better than bad gaming. Don't put up with obnoxious people or games you don't enjoy just because you "need a fix". Seriously, it's for the best in the long run.

momothefiddler · Post by **momothefiddler** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:34 pm

Prak wrote:It was really more of a "because they'll probably kick you out after proving to them they're mind caulking" thing.

Exactly. And I'm not in a position where that's something I'm ok with.

Schleiermacher wrote:No gaming is better than bad gaming. Don't put up with obnoxious people or games you don't enjoy just because you "need a fix". Seriously, it's for the best in the long run.

And if I didn't enjoy spending time with these people beyond the game itself, I'd agree. I like my friends and I like hanging out with them, I just wish they were better at gaming. Or seeing discussion of rules as anything but exploitative.